How to choose a Fighting Rifle Options

[oblivionboyj]

Actually I would say an AK over an SKS in the current market.
The ecconomic advantage an SKS had over an AK a few years ago has evaporated.
It is literally only a few dollars more for an AK now, and you end up with a whole lot more rifle.
All things being equal (and they are as the 2 rifles both use the same ammo) the AK is the way to go if you need a battle rifle on a budget.
Don't get me wrong, I love the SKS.
I own one.
Mine even uses AK magazines instead of the fixed 10 round most of them have.
But if I was going to get my one and only MBR in this market, I would pass on the SKS and get an AK.

[xqrz499]

I really like the durability of the AK. I've seen (with my own 2 eyeballs not on TV) a comparison of the AR-15 to the AK-47 and while the AR hands down beats the pants off of the AK for accuracy, durability of the AK is amazing.

I was in Colorado with a bunch of friends that are all gun nuts and one had such a vast collection of rifles he was willing to use some of his lessor quality rifles in the test.

We found a mud puddle that more mud than water and completely submersed the AK in the mud...totally....couldn't see the weapon in the puddle if you walked passed it. Left it there for several minutes and pulled it out of the mud, gave it a few shakes to get the loose mud off and unloaded 3 30 round mags consecutively.

The AR went through the same. Pulled it out'a the mud, a few good shakes and bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, JAM!!! 5 shots and the weapon was useless...a paper weight (in a combat situation anyway).

The tolerances are so tight on AR's is almost a pain. They have to be kept squeaky clean constantly or they "typically" jam. Accurate as hell up to 500 to 600 yards, but reliability is really in the tank with those weapons.

That's why I own more than 1 AK and only 1 AR....

Just one mans opinion (or shall i say experience).

[ScottFN308]

I really like the durability of the AK. I've seen (with my own 2 eyeballs not on TV) a comparison of the AR-15 to the AK-47 and while the AR hands down beats the pants off of the AK for accuracy, durability of the AK is amazing.

I was in Colorado with a bunch of friends that are all gun nuts and one had such a vast collection of rifles he was willing to use some of his lessor quality rifles in the test.

We found a mud puddle that more mud than water and completely submersed the AK in the mud...totally....couldn't see the weapon in the puddle if you walked passed it. Left it there for several minutes and pulled it out of the mud, gave it a few shakes to get the loose mud off and unloaded 3 30 round mags consecutively.

The AR went through the same. Pulled it out'a the mud, a few good shakes and bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, JAM!!! 5 shots and the weapon was useless...a paper weight (in a combat situation anyway).

The tolerances are so tight on AR's is almost a pain. They have to be kept squeaky clean constantly or they "typically" jam. Accurate as hell up to 500 to 600 yards, but reliability is really in the tank with those weapons.

That's why I own 7 AK's and only 1 AR....

Just one mans opinion (or shall i say experience).

I own ARs as well as an AK. All my ARs will perform when dirty, otherwise I would not
have them. The thing about most commercial ARs, is just that, they are commercial
sporting rifles. They are not built to the same spec and tolerances as their military
counterparts. Some are, but most are not.

Another problem with ARs started back in the mid 1980s. That was when the "homebuilt"
craze started. I cannot recall the number of incorrectly assembled AR type rifles I saw
come into the shop when I helped out in a gunsmith shop. I have actually seen buffer
springs and pins fly out when the upper was separated from the lower. I have also seen
ARs assembled with questionable parts, from who knows who, as well as one that actually
had the rear takedown pin secured in the rifle with a toothpick to keep it from falling out
because the owner didn't know how the spring and detent went in the rifle.

Some ARs out there today were assembled by people who have no business doing so.
These rifles are questionable at best. It is therefore not fair to expect these rifles to
perform up to the standard of a mil-spec unit.

The AK is a different matter. The AK requires specialized tools and equipment to assemble
into a rifle. One cannot assemble an AK kit on a receiver with a barrel wrench and a few
punches like one can an AR type rifle. One must have a reasonable amount of skill and
gunsmith experience to assemble an AK.

Everybody and their brother sells an AR type rifle today. Unfortunately, they are not all
created equal.

Regards,

Scott

[xqrz499]

Go with an SKS I am about sell my brothers AK buy him an SKS (as per his request) and keep the profits, hell I am about to sell my own AK and get 1 or two SKSes

I've never bought an SKS (although my dad has one) because I've heard many stories about the SKS having a "free floating" firing pin being very conducive to slam firing more so that a lot of others with the same. Heard a story once of a guy who's SKS slam fired and essentially unloaded the remainder of his mag (yes, hearsay but from someone I believe to be truthful)...sounded pretty unpleasant. What's your take on that?

[FaisalShahzad...]

I just want to say that this post and your related writing on rifles and pistols on awrm.org have made me aware of things that I would have not thought of otherwise.

[tire iron]

Thanks for the kind words! Glad to be of service.

cheers

tire iron

[Windage & El...]

Motomom, I live in Central Texas, Waco, Temple, Killeen area and would be glad to try and help. My wife prefers the AR platform, but can shoot the AK, and SKS. She shies away from my Cetme and Garand, as they look too intimidating and have seriously loud 'booms', although I'm sure she could shoot the Garand well. There is a BIG advantage to the AR platform, in that the AR rifle has a HUGE spring built into it, that really tames the recoil. There is virtually NO kick to it! It is also a very accurate rifle, and available in many many price ranges and setups. This is a wonderful forum to learn on, I congratulate you on your choice of MM net.
W&E

[Twincougars]

Now lets look at the FN-FAL:

1. RELIABLE
2. DURABLE
3. REPAIRABLE
4. ERGONOMIC
5. ACCURATE

It meets ALL the criteria – so does the M1-a, the M1, the M1 carbine, the AR series, and the HK series. These rifles ALL meet ALL criteria. Obviously some are better in some areas – and some are better in others – but they ALL meet the general criteria.[/size]

Can I presume my L1A1 also fits the criteria?

Also, on the M1 Carbine, I forgot who mfrd mine; got it at Sears, but it was not MIL quality. After firing a few rounds, the rear sight started sliding through its dovetail, and the front clamp holding the forearm to the barell came loose and the whole carbine came apart in my hands! Duct tape and epoxy time. So beware cheapie M1 carbines!

Under "ergonomic" I might also include weight. It might be a great rifle, but if you are a 100lb. weakling you might not want to carry around a large caliber heavy rifle where the rifle plus all the ammo is too much to lug through the boonies.

[Twincougars]

I've never bought an SKS (although my dad has one) because I've heard many stories about the SKS having a "free floating" firing pin being very conducive to slam firing more so that a lot of others with the same. Heard a story once of a guy who's SKS slam fired and essentially unloaded the remainder of his mag (yes, hearsay but from someone I believe to be truthful)...sounded pretty unpleasant. What's your take on that?

It's my understanding that this only occurs if the firing pin holder (or what ever it is called) is installed upside down. Then when you cock and release the bolt, it goes full auto and empties the magazine.

[FaisalShahzad...]

Also, on the M1 Carbine, I forgot who mfrd mine; got it at Sears, but it was not MIL quality. After firing a few rounds, the rear sight started sliding through its dovetail, and the front clamp holding the forearm to the barell came loose and the whole carbine came apart in my hands! Duct tape and epoxy time. So beware cheapie M1 carbines!

That was probably a commercial copy of an M1 carbine. I think the guide presumes an actual, surplus M1 carbine.

[Wolv]

Hello all. New to your site. I have an AR/15 Colt H-Bar Sporter. Full length stock and barrel. Why? Because it is closest to what I used in the Air Force as a Security Police Officer. I know the rifle inside and out. Also do not expect to be firing over 300meters. Has the hand guard on top and no accesories. Question is how do you all rate this particular rifle. Thanks

[Ghost13]

Hello all. New to your site. I have an AR/15 Colt H-Bar Sporter. Full length stock and barrel. Why? Because it is closest to what I used in the Air Force as a Security Police Officer. I know the rifle inside and out. Also do not expect to be firing over 300meters. Has the hand guard on top and no accesories. Question is how do you all rate this particular rifle. Thanks

If you are comfortable with it, you know how to use and maintain the rifle then its a 10 out of 10. I have a M-4 style rifle which is close to what I used in the Army. I would say it is a 10 out of 10 for me. I also have a back-up rifle that is the civilian vairant of the AK-47. It would be a 8 or 9 out of 10 for me. It all depends on what you can affored and are able to use and maintain.

[RandyMack]

I found out the hard way about the Mini-14. It was my first rifle with my first militia I joined. We went to the deserts of NV (where I lived) and within a couple of days of the FTX, my weapon failed. The firing pin broke, and it was constantly jamming from the sand buildup. I went through a lot of guns trying to find the right one.....and I'm still looking. Thanks for your suggestions. Have you heard of the new Saiko's (they come in Nato now). They are a mini-14 clone it appears, but is chambered for several calibers. Any feedback on this rifle would be most welcome.

[tire iron]

Using my criteria as a guide - the Mini-14 FAILS.

Choose another rifle type that fits the criteria better, i.e. one that is a bona-fide military rifle.

The *lowly* SKS is head and shoulders above the Mini-14.

cheers

tire iron

[ScottFN308]

Using my criteria as a guide - the Mini-14 FAILS.

Choose another rifle type that fits the criteria better, i.e. one that is a bona-fide military rifle.

The *lowly* SKS is head and shoulders above the Mini-14.

cheers

tire iron

Indeed it is. I have yet to understand the facisination that some people have toward the
Mini 14. I guess their hatred toward the AR-15 in particular, and other rifles in general,
somehow clouds their judgement. I have had most who own one tell me it was a cost
issue. However, after going into detail about the costs involved in making the Mini a
decent fighting rifle, they come to find that they will have spent more than if they just
purchased a more suitable rifle in the first place.

At a class back in February that I was lead instructor for, I had a student that wanted to
use a Mini. Even after malfunction after malfunction, and difficulty in the manipulation
drills, he refused to put it down and use his imminently more suitable Colt AR-15 he had
in his car. I can understand wanting to be familiar with a variely of weapons, but to me
a better course of action would have been to master the skills with the AR, since it would
have been easier to use in the class, and then modify the techniques to the Mini later.

But, that is just me I guess.

Regards,

Scott

[tater]

I have always wanted a Springfield M-1A but could never afford one. Are there any other worthwhile makers of said rifle, and what is a general price range to be expected?
I have always liked the weight of my M-1 and it's accuracy. (with iron sights @ 200 yards I'm well within the black) Not to mention the fact that I'd be more comfortable using it as a club than I would, my AR.
Does anyone have any experience with the M-1 conversion kits to BM-59? I saw an ad for them in the Shotgun News a while back, and I must admit that it did peak my interest; but I don't want to spend the money until I hear anything about it.

[tire iron]

Tater,

Use the M1 as is - if you like the weight and length - it will serve you well.

cheers

tire iron

[Devildog70]

For me, the m-1 has been the 1911 of rifles. I'd never trust one out of the box, but once you get them broken in, they are beastly. Personally, I'd stick with the Springfield. I tend to look at how much I will save by buying an "off" brand, then factor in the costs of the potential fixes I may have to do. I realize Not all Springfields are perfect, but the list of "common" problems is significantly shorter than other makers.

Generally, using my matrix, the savings of buying an off brand is either seriously mitigated, or becomes more costly than the "real" deal.

No, I wasn't slamming 1911's. My primary handgun is a Kimber. I like it more than my Glocks, Sigs, H&K...I just didn't trust it until I had 1000 trouble-free rounds through it

[tater]

Generally, using my matrix, the savings of buying an off brand is either seriously mitigated, or becomes more costly than the "real" deal.

Agreed. You can still get them from the CMP for around $400. I got mine (a Springfield) mfgrd in may '45)) around 9 years ago & it has served me WELL. Not to mention that you can also get new stocks & hardware reasonably priced. I still see a lot of spare parts at the gun shows. Which reminds me.... I need to pick up a few things this weekend.